A old wise man once said
"You gotta know when to hold em, and know when to fold em.."
I just got my river card in this poker game....hint hint, it came from a .gov website...
Also, I got contacted by a law firm here in Phoenix. I will speak to them tomorrow.
Now we're cookin' with gas...
more to come (but who knows for how much longer now)...
I think the Tea Party stuff might be given a little more credibility if it wasn't so ... white.
ReplyDeleteI have seen more people of color at a KKK rally.
I sure hope you win this one, Andy. Freedom needs a win.
ReplyDeleteI've read a few articles regarding your fight to fly your flag. I don't believe you have the right to fly it if your home owner's association prohibits it. You agreed to the HOA rules when you bought your home. Your neighbors may have bought their homes because of the HOA rules. It doesn't matter what kind of flag it is. It's against the rules. It's your right to move if you don't like the HOA where you live.
ReplyDeleteHomeowners Associations are misguided and unconstitutional. There is no place for a homeowners association in this Free Republic. Condo Associations and similar organizations, with their restrictive and legally-binding convenants, should be outlawed on a constitutional basis.
ReplyDeleteIt is worthwhile to note that many of these associations were originally created to keep blacks out of white housing developments in the fifties, so you can see that they have bad roots.
You email me here with your name and address and I will send you some 4 day defensive handgun certificates you can attend training with at www.frontsight.com, or sell to further your cause. I support you full on and this aggression will not stand.
ReplyDeletejonlandwer@frontsight.com
I hope you win this dispute. Had something similar happen to my family in North Carolina when we flew the original Navy Jack. A similar design to your flag except red and white stripes with the Snake laying across it. People don't understand the history of these flags and what they mean to us, and sometimes you have to fight back. Would donate money to you but I am a broke college student. Good luck.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of what happens with your case, I hope this makes you realize that it's never a good idea to buy a house with deed restrictions. HoA's sound great on paper, right up until you realize that they become overbearing as (usually) one person attempts to create their own individual idea of utopia.
ReplyDeleteI vehemently disagree with the tea party movement, but I completely support your right to free speech. I hope you stick it to those SOBs on the HOA and the Gadsden flies proudly over your home as long as you want it there!
ReplyDeleteYou moved into an association knowing the rules and now you want them changed just for you?
ReplyDeleteNothing against a Flag but you'll waste alot of your and homeowners money fighting for your ignorance.
The USNavy has a Navy flag with DTOM. The Navy Jack has been around since 1775, my dad flew one at our house in the 70's, in celebration of the USNavy bicentennial. It is historic and supportive. Even if not exactly the same. If someone is offended by an American symbol of liberty, they are in the wrong country. The USNavy is flying them now for the duration of the war on terrorism. What has happened to peoples patriotism and support of our military. My dad was an E9 Masterchief, 30yrs served, I myself am a Navy widow. Let freedom ring!!
ReplyDeleteThis is tough, I can see both sides. On one hand, a person should have the right to fly any flag they choose, it's a free country...but you did buy a house in a deed restricted community which means other people did as well, and maybe they did so they would not have to live in an area that people voice their opinions so loudly as to fly a flag that might offend someone else. Homeowners associations are set up to protect the "common" desires of the "community". They aren't always going to have rules that are perfect for everyone, but they do try to stick to the rules to protect the initial idea of what "fits" in that particular community.
ReplyDeleteI totally support your flying the "Don't Tread On Me" flag... and I'm a Democrat. I like that flag for the history behind it.
ReplyDeleteDude, read your CC&Rs. Don't move into a homeowner's association if you want to do whatever you want. Paint your house pink, leave your car parked on your yard (subject to city code), fly a Russian flag, have as many dogs as you want (subject to city code), run around naked in your fenced in yard (subject to city code)---do whatever you want and buy a house NOT subject to an association's CC&Rs, Rules and Regulations.
ReplyDeleteThat was your first mistake. Your second mistake is in thinking that this is a Freedom of Speech issue. Your First Amendment Rights aren't being violated by the government, but by a private institution. If I run my own newspaper, I can print what I like. If I send a letter to the Arizona Republic and they choose not to print my letter---my 1st Amendment rights aren't being violated.
From their standpoint I can go own my own newspaper, or pay to place an ad like everyone else.
You wanna fly your freak flag, then buy a house without an HOA. Simple as that. You're wasting everyone's time by suing... and guess what? You, and your fellow neighbors, are going to pay for that suit in either increased HOA dues, or in having less money for the association to keep up repairs.
Think about it. Fly your flag at a protest. Go fly it at the Capitol. Fly it in front of Obama on a public street. Fly it in a park. Fly it where you wish, except for where a private association that you chose to join *KNOWN THE RULES* has asked you not to.
History? You wouldn't know history if it bit you in the face... do you even know what this flag even really MEANS? You think flying a flag makes you "patriotic"? Try actually doing something for other people for a change. Feed the homeless, help the impoverished, give to charity, help at a soup kitchen. Divided we die... United we stand together.
I support you but want you to know what will happen if you lose. If the home owners association wins chances are they will stick you with their $100,000+ lawyer bill. Homeowners associations are crooks. Also, monetize your website by putting up advertisements. Sign up for Google Adsense and run ads.
ReplyDeleteI fly this same flag at my home in NYC. Fly the flag Andy! It is a symbol of our roots. Somebody has to take a stand.
ReplyDeleteLiberty of Death
Keep the Faith
ReplyDeleteAs one who has served our country, rights, even when shadowed in the limelight of private rules, are guaranteed by Our Constitution. When rules outweigh individual rights, then the rules need to be changed. The law in question does not distinguish rather or not this flag can or cannot be flown, it is the neighbors who are shouting foul. Until it is certain that a law has been broken, then the flag has a right to fly,, indeed it must fly.
You Keep the Faith, Even people now called Patriots where Outlaws when they were needed most and it was their actions that gave us these Rights we so often abuse and forget.
I would like to know if Mr. McDonel would object if a neighbor next door put a different historical flag on their home. Like an historical flag from Israel, Iraq or Iran or Mexico for that matter. I wonder if he would object to that. You lost your freedom of public "expression" when you purchased a home that was maintained by an HOA. Are rules good for everyone else but not for you? It is individuals like yourself that make America not so beautiful. At the vary least Mr. McDonal, tell the truth. That flag flying has nothing to do with history. How many other historical flags do you own?
ReplyDeleteThey want an Official U.S. Flag....then fly the First Naval Jack. Do some research, it is an Offical Flag flown on naval ships during time of war...it also has the snake and "Don't Tread On Me" language AND it is official, same as the Stars and Stripes.
ReplyDeleteAs an individual who has suffered and fought my HOA for years (millions of dollars in legal fees alone so far) due to my HOA's ingorance and refusal to follow not only the laws (both city, state and federal) but also the HOA rules themselves, I hope you continue to fight your HOA and stand up for your rights. As to those who blame you for the problem as it was your "choice" to move into a HOA, they do not understand that it not only your right to fly that flag (freedom of speech) but it is also allowed by state law. No matter what the HOA rules may or not say or what your HOA Board Members believe the fact is that state / federal law ALWAYS supercedes HOA rules.
ReplyDeleteIn my mind, the violation itself, further demonstrates the depth of your HOA's ignorance as, from what I understand, the alleged HOA violation is for "debris / trash on the side of your home". Using a standard dictionary, I do not understand how your flag (no matter what type it is) could be interpeted, in any way, to meeting any definition of those words.
This is a perfect example of another HOA being run by individuals who think that they are "above the law" and that being a member gives them authority / power over others (which they lack in "real life") but also the incorrect belief that they are "totalitarian dictators".
Andy is NOT saying that the rules do not apply to him but rather that the rules apply both him AND his HOA. The "meaning", "real reason" of why he wants to fly the flag or how many "historical flags" he owns is completely IRRELEVANT as Andy is doing everything in 100% accordance with the rules / laws. The issue isn't about the flag but rather that the rules / laws are followed by BOTH parties and it is clear that the HOA is not following their own rules and also violating Andy's rights.
Finally, what I find so disheartening is how so many are willing to "throw away" the right of "freedom of expression" when that right is not only a right shared by us ALL (ironically the same right which allows them to disagree with Andy - or myself) but a right, along with so many others, which was earned at a great cost and not something that should be "taken for granted" or ever minimized.
I hope you continue to fight and never "give in" to your HOA's ignorance and stupidity.
Very interesting, I'm pulling for you, and from what little I know, you should prevail, if only on procedural grounds. It seems that to some extent your right to use your home for free speech demonstrations was curtailed, and that was implied when you signed up there. However, to take the position of using a law that was designed to protect certain actions (eg: flying the American flag) to say that you can't fly the flag that represented Colonial defiance of England, is a real stretch. It is clear you have chosen this particular hill to defend...so good for you. Best of luck!
ReplyDeleteMany people who live into a neighborhood with an HOA are often surprised to find out that the rules are not only misguided and baseless, but many times are in direct violation of federal and local laws. As an example, my former HOA had many bylaws in violation, including one stating an antenna or satellite dish was not allowed, a provision protected for every American citizen owning or renting a dwelling by Federal law. There is no contract that exists that can circumvent the law, including HOA bylaws. Just because it's printed by an HOA doesn't mean it's fact.
ReplyDeleteYou give up no rights when you move into an HOA - a misguided belief - you simply make some concessions about paint choices, lawn upkeep, future development and the like.
Mr. McDonel states he followed all the protocol, including size limitations, set forth by the HOA - that's all he was required to do. I can't say I wuld fly the flag myself, but if you have a question on the historical significance of the Gadsden flag, look in the Library of Congress website - you may be surprised.
How many here have ever blogged, commented, or agreed with the Tea Party anthem of ,"If you don't like the way we're running this country, feel free to leave?" Yet here we are fighting a homeowner's associatin who is only trying to enforce a rule it established within a territory it controls. Why do we not now invoke the "...if you don't like our rules, feel free to leave..." doctrine and instead, hold fast and fight just like our Liberal enemies do on causes they deem important? To me, it seems terribly hypocritical to bully a homeowner's association into changing their rules while simultaneously insisting that people who dislike our rules leave our territory. Comments?
ReplyDelete